Community Guy - Latest Comments in Thomas Hawk Replies

Re: Thomas Hawk Replies

Jake McKee — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 16:18:21 -0000

Jason, fantastic analogy - thanks for helping me there.

Sean, you said: "You may think that what Thomas is doing as a CEO is unethical or reprehensible and that's your right to think that way. But at the same time, that's your opinion."

Absolutely, and I'm sure there's plenty out there that disagree with me. But hey, this is the place where I share my opinions, so sharing my opinion is OK :)

And yes, I do think it's (at least borderline) unethical. It's certainly intellectually dishonest, and more than that, it's incredibly bad business.

Sean said: "As far as morals go, he's doing nothing different than other "evangelists" throughout history have done."

See, that's where I disagree, or at least where I think the real learning from this issue comes from. Marketers do this kind of quasi-devious stuff all the time. But a good evangelist knows better. Evangelism, after all means "spreading the good word"... not "ripping on your competitors to make them look bad".

A good evangelist knows that you get more flies with honey, that taking the high road is almost always better than the alternative. Look at Stewart Butterfield's response in this thread and tell me who comes off better in the exchange.

Re: Thomas Hawk Replies

Thomas Hawk — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 11:05:09 -0000

For what it's worth my involvement with Flickr will certainly be winding down. At least for the short-term. I've decided to stop posting my photographs on the site. This after posting every day for 2 years, almost 1.7 million views and over 40,000 comments.

I've also decided to quit looking at and engaging with photos of other Flickr members. And to quit any conversations in the general groups with Flickr membership.

I'm still keeping my account and will hang out with my Pals in Deleteme Uncensored (a group ironically that Flickr won't allow you to see unless you are logged into your Flickr account, as we've been somehow coded "unacceptable" for non Yahoo eyes).

But my activity at Flickr will drop dramatically.

More than anything this is due to the fact that over the course of the past month Flickr has stopped being fun for me. The recent censorship thing was a catalyst, but really underneath it all Flickr has turned from one of the intense joys in my life into something miserable in my life. Much of the passion that I've felt for Flickr over the course of the last 2 years is very much dead.

Re: Thomas Hawk Replies

Jason Lefkowitz — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 06:31:57 -0000

"You may think that what Thomas is doing as a CEO is unethical or reprehensible and that's your right to think that way.

But at the same time, that's your opinion."

Well, of course. It's not the law or anything. People are free to do all sorts of stupid things :-)

I'm just trying to explain to Thomas why people might look askance at him when he chooses to follow this path. He's free to take my advice or leave it.

Re: Thomas Hawk Replies

sean_mcgee — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 06:00:38 -0000

You may think that what Thomas is doing as a CEO is unethical or reprehensible and that's your right to think that way.

But at the same time, that's your opinion.

As far as morals go, he's doing nothing different than other "evangelists" throughout history have done.

Re: Thomas Hawk Replies

Jason Lefkowitz — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 04:46:15 -0000

I could no sooner quit talking, thinking, debating about flickr at this point than I could cut off my hand.

Jean-Luc Godard famously observed of movie reviewers that the best way to criticize a movie is to make another movie. I would go a step further and say that, if you want to criticize, you have to choose one approach or the other: if Movie A prompts you to make Movie B, it's disingenuous for you to also write reviews describing how Movie A sucks. In other words, you can either respond with words, or you can respond with actions.

With Zooomr you have decided to "make another movie". That's fine - it's actually laudable. But it also means that you have to let your work speak for itself. Zooomr as a service should stand as an articulate enough refutation of the things you dislike about Flickr. If it isn't, nothing you can write will change that.

Re: Thomas Hawk Replies

Thomas Hawk — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 12:17:19 -0000

The scary part here is that you seem to have gambled everything on something you don't believe in.

I'm not quite sure how anyone could read what I wrote and come to the conclusion that I don't believe in Zooomr.

I passionately believe in Zooomr. In the community. In the people that make it what it is. In advancing and bettering the landscape for photographers.

You miss the point entirely. Jake. But that's ok too.

We are doing something amazing for photography. Zooomr is trying to redefine the $2.5 billion stock photography market in favor of photographers. We are trying to open up the fine art market to all photographers. We want to run physical galleries and publish books and magazines and make the world an amazingly beautiful place with pictures.

You don't know anything about the Zooomr community because you are not a part of it. It is in fact one of the most vibrant communities on the internet today.

Take a look at this video by Randyman. Randyman spent a bunch of his own money printing up half a million Zooomr stickers for our users. Randyman did this because he *is* a part of our community and understands what we're doing.

It doesn't bother me that you don't. That you'd like to make this about business and marketing speak.

Zooomr's business prospects are the least of my concern. Zooomr will be financially successful. Quite financially successful actually. But we will get there by embracing our community, being transparent, being honest. Well get there by treating the people that use our site with dignity and respect and always looking out for their interest.

I don't think you will need to worry about me on Flickr anymore by the way. I made a decision yesterday to largely eject myself from the service -- except for the deleteme uncensored forum where I hang out with my pals.

One thing I will say about you Jake is that at least you have the balls to sign your name to this criticism. And despite my replies I have a great deal of respect for your opinion and have taken much of what you've said to heart. Which is more than I can say for the anonymous posters coming from Yahoo IP addresses that take their potshots without acknowledging their clear conflict of interest.